Guest philiplolc

Engine sputtering after 2mth layup with old fuel

31 posts in this topic

Hi guys, my bike is not well.

PROBLEM

- spark plugs 2 & 3 are all black

- engine has been sputtering

- fuel consumption is very high.. one tank of vpower (23litres) only goes 160Km before the orange light comes on

- some black smoke when i high rev it at idle

CAUSE

Not sure but i was not riding the X much the past year.. occasionally once in 1-2mth.. the last time was the longest, about 2mths that i left it there without starting it up even.

2 weeks ago i discovered this problem, i brought it to my mechanic. he said the old fuel messed it up, and now the engine has carbon built up or something.

he changed all the plugs (2 & 3 were black), asked me to ride it awhile.. clear carbon, but still same prob.

This morning, had plugs 2 & 3 changed (as they were black), and cleaned the fuel injectors. i've been riding it for half a day but still same problem.

He said not much i can do, just ride it more regular to clear the carbon, and at least after a couple more spark plug changes before it gets back to normal.

Just wondering if there's more i can do to fix this up faster. thanks.

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You've not got a birds/mouse nest in your airbox?

Chuck a bottle of injector cleaner in with your fuel... swap your coils over, see if it does it on the other plugs?

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thanks Eddy, will try that..

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think found the problem.. apparently when i switched my stock exhausts to my old microns.. the microns messed it up.. not sure how though..

but once i switched back to the stock exhausts, the plugs were not wet like before.. its firing better, drier, cleaner..

now i'm just running the bike awhile more before checking the plugs again.. didn't think to look at the micron cans.. hmmm

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think found the problem.. apparently when i switched my stock exhausts to my old microns.. the microns messed it up.. not sure how though..

but once i switched back to the stock exhausts, the plugs were not wet like before.. its firing better, drier, cleaner..

now i'm just running the bike awhile more before checking the plugs again.. didn't think to look at the micron cans.. hmmm

Did you change the header pipes for aftermarket and not put the 02 sensor back on? :unsure:

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think found the problem.. apparently when i switched my stock exhausts to my old microns.. the microns messed it up.. not sure how though..

but once i switched back to the stock exhausts, the plugs were not wet like before.. its firing better, drier, cleaner..

now i'm just running the bike awhile more before checking the plugs again.. didn't think to look at the micron cans.. hmmm

Did you change the header pipes for aftermarket and not put the 02 sensor back on? :unsure:

hi raeman, i do have aftermarket headers, with PCIII.. but before the layup bike was running fine..

not sure about the O2 sensor.. let me check that too.. if i didn't, would that mess up the timing or something?

if i remember right, these Delkevic headers i bought didn't even come with O2 sensor? i'm not sure.

Edited by philiplolc
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If there was no 02 port in the headers, you can fit an 02 eliminator to fool the ECU into thinking there is one fitted. No 02 could have caused the problems your having.

Standish Honda knows far more than me about this though! Any thoughts Pete? ;)

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its not the cans.. still having problems.. and my mech said its not 02 sensor, or valve clearance..

the stock cans just wasn't firing as rich as the micron cans, but plugs 2 & 3 still black, but its dry black, not like the microns with wet and black..

mech switched the ignition coils to test that out.. and said could also possibly be a piston rings problem.. jeez

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Hmm.

I think that if you have a PCIII, you have to use O2 eliminator (not sensor at all)

This because if you adjust something with PCIII and you have, at the same time, the original O2 sensor working, then original ECU tryes

to correct the injection values that you try to adjust by PCIII.

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Try removing the PC111 or checking the connectors , I wouldn't go tearing the engine apart or anything serious until you have eliminated all possible electrical systems.

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Agree with you John,

I had a PC111 fitted bike started missing out on a run it was over fueling so much it was running out of the link pipes where they meet the headers.

Disconnected the PC111 & the bike ran fine.

Luckily I had only just fitted it & it was an easy elimination, but it had been running fine with it.

Edited by wayne
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thanks guys..

my mech went thru alot of stuff.. PCIII has been removed.. then tried swapping the ignition coil, same problem.. tested compression of cylinders all ok.. but still sparks 2 & 3 black.

also, i checked my stock headers but they don't come with 02 sensor.. guess its cos my model is the Jap. think the O2 sensor only for the Euro model.

so now, mech is switching back my Delkevic headers back to the stock headers and test that.. the Delkevic headers seem not tight, alot of vibration coming from them.

hopefully its that.. else running out of ideas. last resort would be the pistons rings?

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mech also said could be some inlet valve blocked or something like that?

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checked the status with my mech today..

they

- switched ignition coils

- switched fuel injectors 1 & 2, 3 & 4

- switched back to stock manifold

- switched out PCIII to stock ECU

- checked engine oil no leakeage of petrol

- compression of cylinders ok

But cylinders no.2 & 3 still too rich.. what else is left? valve in the cam?

looks like will need to open it up to check.. damn

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Sounds like the bores and rings are OK and you seem to have tried everything esle so the valves not sealing is the next thing to try .last chance saloon before expense of strip down,engine flush and red x again or ask mech.if anything local that may flush valves as old fuel may have glazed themhuh.gifhuh.gif

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If the compression of the cylinders is ok, thaen valves are closing properly.

Maybe they are not opening properly, valve clearences ok?

How many km`s/miles? Time to check them anyway?

Edited by Maintenanceman
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thanks guys.. lemme check with my mech what else he's gonna do.. hope its just a valves thing now..

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I know this may sound daft , but have you completely cleaned out the fuel tank as you may have water in there , If the bike gets left for long periods without use you should always leave it with the fuel tank full , this will eliminate condensation forming in the tank.

If you have normal compression then you definitely do not have a valve problem.

1: If the valves were not opening properly you have got a badly work camshaft and the clatter would be unbearable.

2: You wouldn't have two valves go wrong at exactly the same time.

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yes, fuel replacement was the first thing that was done..

threw away old fuel, and put in new ones.. and i've used 2 tanks of fuel after that too..

normal compression, not valves problem.. got it..

lemme check status tmr.. thx x11r..

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Draining the fuel and putting fresh in wont get rid of any water in the tank as it is heavier and will sit in around the fuel pump , I suggest to be sure and to eliminate fuel problems that you remove and strip the fuel tank and perhaps replace the fuel filter while your there , then check the fuel pressure.

I know its not an easy job , but I'm sure that you don't have any mechanical problems and from what you have said you need to eliminate every possible problem that the fuel system could have.

It may also pay to try a different fuel station.

Edited by x11r
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will ask mech about the water in tank thing..

today he told me he checked almost everything..

its not piston rings, compression, valves, ignition coils, injectors (checked the spray too)..

and seems like the only 2 things left are

1) ECU (even reset this a couple times)

2) can't remember what now..

he did say it seems like a air/petrol mixture not right..

next thing to do.. get a fren's ECU (Jap model) switch with mine.. then test that out..

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Just go over the simple things again first... the brittle wires to the ecu, all of the hoses and connectors to the airbox and fuel system.

Make sure they are all intact/connected etc.

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Just go over the simple things again first... the brittle wires to the ecu, all of the hoses and connectors to the airbox and fuel system.

Make sure they are all intact/connected etc.

True.

Friend of mine brought me his BlackBird, it wasnt working right, fuel economy was poor and it was burning and banging fuel in pipes.

He sayed that he hasnt done anything for it after winter brake...

Ok, i assumed that some of the carbs were dirty, opened them, and nothing, same thing again after i cleaned them and put them back.

Then i saw IT, asked him that if he is sure that he hasnt done anything.... Well, he had changed sparkplugs, and mixed the wires :laugh:

Why didnt i saw that right away, who knows :unsure:

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The HT leads could be the problem and it is easy to miss them being wrong or even put them on the wrong plugs. Make sure that the coil on the left (as you are sat on the bike) feeds 1 and 3 and the other feeds 2 and 4. Also check for tracking on the leads it`s not common for HT leads to fail but it is possible.

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thanks all.. i finally got back my bike couple days ago.. its fixed after more than a month in the workshop..

apparently,

valves were leaking,

changed the sensor map,

fuel pump was really dirty so that was cleaned,

changed another dunno wat part inside,

chain tensioner.. and some other stuff, not even sure what..

and the usual gaskets, plugs, etc..

came to 700 pounds..

but at least its fixed now.. :)

i also put on some chinese danmoto motogp exhausts on the stock headers and removed the PCIII..

if anyone wants to see/hear that.. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdhIctr0JgM

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