Guest A13BKD

Oil opportunity

26 posts in this topic

Good afternoon everyone,

 

It's time for the X11's oil/filter change and so I popped into Hein Gericke earlier to buy oil and a filter.

 

No problems, items in stock but I did notice that 4lts of HG Fully Synth is selling for £19.99 whereas HG semi-synth is £24.99.

I prefer fully but have used semi in the past and can report excellent performance for both.

 

Seems like a good deal to me.

 

Cheers

 

Brady

 

0

Share this post


Link to post

In my opion your x11 would be better with the semi as some engines of the x11 age do not like the fully synth and can cause problems Bry

0

Share this post


Link to post

Hello Bry,

 

Thanks for your comments; can you expand? I'd welcome more detail.

 

It's been fine up to now however I'm not fixated and as I say, would welcome your comments.

 

Cheers

 

Brady

0

Share this post


Link to post

I think that sometime fully synth can give you trouble with the clutch eg if it got ptfe addives in it. also I would never put fully synth in an engine until it fully ran in.There is a school of thought that saids once you use fully synth you should not use semi again in that engine without a flush? But I just think that engine was design to run on semi and a x11 is hardly if ever going to be laboured so why bother.

0

Share this post


Link to post

Many thanks for your thoughts Bry.

 

Fair comment about the engine hardly being laboured.

I recall when I bought my first X11 checking a compatibility sheet from Castrol and it specified full synth for the X11. Although I've not had this one from new (it's my third) I've put either semi or fully in it with no issues and I saved a fiver - fingers crossed!  :biggrin:

 

Cheers

 

Brady

0

Share this post


Link to post

Hi Brady

            As they said you pay you money and made you choice and I sure that the oil will not harm the engine if there not a problem with clutch slip,but on the subject of hein gericke at the moment they have a bucket of cleaning products with chain lub and a £10 off coupon worth £35 in total for £13 .so you could buy the bucket take the copoun out then buy oiland filter with £10 off.the copoun last till end of sept,and is usable on all sales over £30.Bry

0

Share this post


Link to post
THIS IS A QUOTE FROM JOHN JAWS AT THE BLACKBIRD SITE
 
 
"Whilst I have no doubt you will find a couple of people who will tell you its fine, as someone who is looked to for information and has dealt exclusively with Birds for almost 13 years, my advice would be do not use it..

In THEORY all would be fine, but given the possible issues, as you say, is it worth the risk ?


We have ( on this forum alone ) documented proof its use can cause vibes, frothing and an early bath for various components

Stick with semi-synth and that engine will be good for in excess of a million mile ( and no, that is NOT an exaggeration ! )

Use the full synth in your car or flog it to a mate with a fiver off..thumba.gif
0

Share this post


Link to post
ANOTHER QUOTE!
 
 
"Don't under any circumstances put fully synth in a bird.


Honda released a dealer notice a fair while ago which states they will not entertain any warranty claims where fully synth has been used.

Seeing as they designed the engine and recommend a certain spec of oil and service interval, just stick to that and expect the engine to last as long as you do".......JOB DONEbow.gif
0

Share this post


Link to post
THE GREAT OIL DEBATE
Having seen the question regarding which oil etc I thought this might help

in the early days oil was mineral straight it broke down under shear loads sludged up oilways & as it oxidised actually caused corrosion,

in the 1950s detergent & antioxidant chemicals where added which washed carbon deposits from the bores & helped stop the oil reacting with oxygen in the air so cutting down on corrosion,

The other problem was cold starting , oil too thick when cold or too thin when hot , so by adding thick polymers based on plastics & synthetic rubbers you now have multigrade oils eg thin enough to help cold starting but retain enough viscosity to run hot,

Next add some PAOs (poly alpha olefins) and esters & you have a shear stable semi synthetic multi grade oil which can cover all temperature & running conditions likely to be encountered by your engine,

the debate about semi or fully synthetic will carry on & as for mineral oil if its a multigrade its already got some synthetic compounds in it,

The most important thing is the shear stability (resistance to breakdown under load) the jaso Ma or Ma2 spec is a good indicator of a good oil as Honda , suzuki , kawasaki & Yamaha all decided upon this series of tests in the late 90s as crap american oils where wrecking engines,

The other point of intrest is that bikes that do long fast trips need oil changes less than bikes that do short low milages & this is because all oils get contaminated by condensation & fuel , those bikes on the long fast gig create enough heat for long enough to evaporate these contaminates out,

Fully synthetic oils are expensive but on long distance fast riding (racing )
have an advantage,

A 1 year old blackbird on15w50 high ester fully synthetic oil dynoed at 128bhp,
same bike on5w40 high ester fully synthetic dynoed at 131.6 bhp,
same bike on ow\20 special synthetic dynoed at 134.4bhp,

so an fully synthetic tailored for specific use has huge benefits for racing but is probably far too expensive for general use ,

also manufacturers oil change intervals are based on worst case oil type & engine use, having said that I would still go for the 4-5000 mile interval

Lumpy pointed out not to use car oils this is good advice as they could cause clutch slip & are not as shear stable as motorcycle specific types,

So for my money castrol gp semi synthetic 10 w 40 as it passes the 10w -25c test & the sae 40 100c test & represents good value

hope this helps Bambiyo.gif
0

Share this post


Link to post
AND FINALLY ANOTHER QUOTE BY JOHN JAWS AT THE BB FORUM EXPLAINING TO MEMBERS THERE RE FULLY SYNTHETIC OIL
 
As for the great oil debate.. Sorry mate, there is no debate .. Fully sythetic oil fucks up bird engines.
No debate.. simply fact... As seen more times that you have miles on your bike ! ( nowt like a bit of exaggeration is there,,,, but you know what I mean tongue.gif )

Several folk on here have tried fully synth and very quickly returned to semi.. I need say no more..
Yes, there are those who know more than me, Honda, and several thousand others who will not believe or even try switching to semi synth or non synth and of course that is entirely their prerogative


BTW, those figures quoted.. I presume they are for a very late bike as they are well below norm apart from the last one which is just about on the money..
Perhaps they are for a bike with less than 8 to 10k miles on ? If that is the case they really are pretty meaningless, sorry
rolleyes.gif

karlos
Its all down to the detergent content of modern oils.. said stuff dissipates over the first 25% of its expected service interval ( cleverly, the folk that make the oil do it in a way that the dissipation varies depending on how hard the oil is put to task
I aint saying it is terribly bad ( if you think running on a detergent oil all the time is ok )
I am saying if you wanna waste your money and not stick to the oil change regime recommended by people WAY smarter than anyone on here ( i.e. the buggers that made and designed the bike ) tis up to you, but why not give your obviously un-needed money to a kids charity.
At least that way the money is doing something useful instead of being tipped down the drain !
I get my info direct from an oil producer ( and I think they must be fairly honest else they would suggest using more of their oil to make more money, not less ! )


But ! Bottom line is we are all different.. People must go where their heart is.

I tend to listen to those who know, and listen to the thousands of inputs I get/got over the past 12 years.
I will stick to semi synth oil and stick to the correct service interval as recomended.
I have never once had cause to doubt the info or question it. I have on the other hand seen and had to sort out bikes that have been run on fully synth for extended periods and some of the engine internals aint been pretty

It is YOU bike at the end of the day and you should do with it as you see fit tongue.gif

0

Share this post


Link to post

Look, I did not intend to start another argument or debate over this; all I wanted to do was let everyone know that HG had some good prices on fully or part synthetic oil. 

 

As the gentlemen above says, there are views from all sides not least Castrol whose web site actually specifies fully synthetic. Regardless the views stated are welcome particularly from those with as much experience as Jaws.

 

Cheers

 

Brady

0

Share this post


Link to post

Look, I did not intend to start another argument or debate over this; all I wanted to do was let everyone know that HG had some good prices on fully or part synthetic oil. 

 

As the gentlemen above says, there are views from all sides not least Castrol whose web site actually specifies fully synthetic. Regardless the views stated are welcome particularly from those with as much experience as Jaws.

 

Cheers

 

Brady

Please don't see the quotes I posted as reason for argument................however I did post them as part of a debate which is part of being a member of a forum.........so I thought :dontknow:  

0

Share this post


Link to post

I always use fully synthetic oil.

0

Share this post


Link to post

Same  here.

0

Share this post


Link to post

Mine with Fully synth Castrol was 144.4 bhp on the dyno ! @ 23 k .

11 years ago same oil with 4k on the clock it was 143 bhp .

0

Share this post


Link to post

Weeeeeeeeeallll there you go!................................As I said Brady.........................Definately a debate :hug: 

0

Share this post


Link to post

Yep - debate is good and each to their own. 

 

:biggrin:

 

Brady

0

Share this post


Link to post

So Brady.......................erm..........................which are you going for? fully or semi? :blush:

0

Share this post


Link to post

From what I read on other forum pages on this site I come to think that fully synth may differ one made to an other so even a straight choice is not simple but its good to talk.

0

Share this post


Link to post

Well....now that's a conundrum!

 

As I said I've been using fully synth for as long as I've had this X11 which has just clocked 31k and as far as I can tell, it has no issues. 

My first X11, was dealer serviced (Dobles) so I presume they will have used whatever the service sheets instructed. The second one ditto although I do recall GPS being used (Gordon Farley's). After I bought my current machine I scrutinised the service history and noticed that it was independent dealer serviced but the oil used was quoted as 'Silkolene fully synth'. I've put around 11k on it since, changing the oil/filter twice and using the same but HG oil on both occasions. 

To be honest I have GPS on the shelf (which I use/used for my varying fleet of other machines) so I could go with that. But then there is the view that swapping to semi from fully is to be avoided...

 

Oil and tyres; the two gold lined subjects guaranteed to get discussions going  :)

 

At last a good weekend weather wise looming,

 

Cheers

 

Brady

0

Share this post


Link to post

Tyres Tyres what about tyres ,whoms tyres do you use and why?:huh:??:huh:??:huh:??:huh:

0

Share this post


Link to post

Gotta say Bry I am partial to the Storms tbh but I put a softer sp2 Avon on the front as the BB is light on the front end. Liked this setup untill I got a puncture in Spain and the only replacement I could get was the Bridgestone BT020 which I can't grumble about :eyes2: 

0

Share this post


Link to post

I put fully synthetic in mine last month, and the clutch knock at start up has almost completely disappeared. :question:

In terms of tyres, I've become a michelin road pilot addict. I used to put part worn Bridgestones on my Daytona, until I found myself in York needing new tyres and came across a deal to have 2 road pilots fitted for 160 quid.  I could hardly say no, so I had them fitted with the intention of leaving them on until my next track day. They performed so well on the road I left them on for a day out a Brands and they were superb. In fact, I swapped them over when I bought the x11 and they are still on it. I have a new set of road pilots waiting in the loft (142 quid ebay) which I will fit when these eventually reach their wear limit.

I think they have done about 7000 miles and two track days. :rock-on:  The only downside as far as I can tell is that it takes a bit longer to get heat into them,

0

Share this post


Link to post

Guys, does anybody use Motul engine oil in UK (5100, 7100 series)? Just interesting. It's very popular here in Ukraine (with a lot of fake :thwack: ) together with Repsol, Fuchs etc.

0

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now