Front suspension without tube?

[Guest Pingu]

Hello from Spain again,

 

I am looking for answers for some questions about our front suspension, our soft front suspension. Why Honda use a metallic tube and a short spring instead of a long spring without a tube? ¿why Honda uses a soft spring in a 140cv motorcycle? (and also in the XX... )

 

 

 

 I am reading about Ohlins and other brands but some people thinks that they are soft yet. However, all springs specific for X11 uses -yes or yes- the fucking tube. I am looking for a long spring with a lengh of the original spring+tube, of course a strong spring, maybe one of 120Nm (austrian springs?) or so, and try it. Have someone tried this option (don't use the tube and use instead a long spring)?. or everybody who wants to get some strong front suspensions only uses strong short springs with tube? I would want a front suspension giving me sure sensations on high speed curves, sure sensations on heavy braking and have a precission line riding in sport way. My last 3 bikes were CBR600, and 2 CBR1000F and I could ride very fast and sure. Now I don't.

 

I don't know if it will be a good solution, but I don't like the tube. I don't understand the tube. ¿any easy explanation about the tube? ¿economic solution in a full power machine?

[wayne 426]

 

If you front forks feel soft first check to see if the oil level is correct in each fork leg , if it is low you front suspension will be soft.

You may also wish to buy some pre load adjuster from Jaws motorcycles, these are made for the blackbird but fit the x11.

but they will only fit the x11 if you have different bars fitted. see picture below. hope this helps.

 

Edited December 13, 2012 by wayne

[Guest Pingu]

The oil level in bars is the especific that recommends Honda for this bike. I preload extra 2,5cm the spring with a piece of the compression system that exists into de bars of my old CBR1000F. This low cost solution is not adjustable, makes me feel a little better riding the bike in fast curves, but not enough. The springs are soft anyway and when hydraulic system finishes, the front wheel get down. Also when I brake hard. My question is if mounting a long stronger spring without the tube i will find the perfect solution. Adjustable kits are in mind too, but not with these springs and, I hope, without the tube.

[Guest paulus]

Hi Pingu

I would have thought that stiffer front springs would actually make handling worse as this would prevent soaking up the road imperfections resulting in front end skipping?

surely a heavier oil would be better as it would slow up the rebound. Although John Jaws (Honda Blackbird guru) states that progressive springs on the Blackbird are a serious NO NO

Maybe progressive springs for the x11 would improve handling especially under braking.

A final note.....The CBR 600 and 1000 are pure sports bikes They not only have suspension's tuned to a sports state but the overall wheel base is shorter the bike is lighter and lower etc etc etc.

I am sure that small improvements can be made from the standard but this bike is not marketed as a super sports bike (although there are a few on here that ride them as sports bikes)....without altered suspension mods!!!!!

perhaps this isn't the machine for you but if you do find improvements through experiment...........Please let us all know   

[Guest Pingu]

Honda CBR1000F has 151cm/59,4inches wheel base and X11 has 150cm//59 inches. wheel base is not different. Suspensions are different. Anywhere Honda uses to manufacturate great motorcycles with great motors and mediocre soft suspensions for its possibilities. Good springs are not as expensive when we talk about 12.000€ machines, but Honda always receive critique words about original suspensions. XX and X11 too. Honda created a powerfull machine in XX and custom this bike in a naked version, X11 with 140cv. If this bike would be a slow riding machine... Who needs 140cv for walk? that is the cuestion. I am instructor in safe riding in Spain and two or three times each year ride with other instructors faster than in coach sessions. Really faster. My first time in ride faster with my X11 was terrible, as if I were a rookie... thats what I mean.

 

I always ride my bikes the same way and if I need more performance in suspensions, i buy better suspensions. Chasis is good, motor is fantastic... It's perfect possible ride fast with the X11. I do, but the limit is not the motor, neither the wheels or chasis. Suspensions are. No matter. A good couple of springs costs 120€. Long or short. If nobody has thought in this solutions, I do. I will contact with my Ohlins supplier with my doubts looking for a explanation for the tube. If Ohlins thinks than a long spring without tube is a good idea, I will buy a long spring. If he thinks that is not a good idea, i will look for a 120Nm short spring and will suffer the tube. If Ohlins let me mount a long spring, I  will share my experiment here, of course.

[x11r 386]

I tried progressive springs they were awfull , the best solution was to put 500ml of 15wt synthetic fork oil in each leg and put a 5mm spacer under the top shock mount , turn inis much quicker and you can brake hard entering corners (delinked brakes!).

Pingu what it sounds like you want to do is remove the damper tube ? This will turn your forks into pogo sticks.

By using 500ml of 15wt oil you will create stiffer damping and by reducing the air in the forks create less compression.

If you want to go down the adjustable route then get some preload adjusters like Wayne has and maybe get your forks revalved to suit your riding style.

The full solution would be to install a diferent front end as I have (04 CBR1000RR) this will make a big diference but involves having to sort out the rear brake as well because you will not be able to use the linked brakes.

Edited December 16, 2012 by x11r

[Guest Pingu]

Y put half 10W and half 15 looking for a 12'5W, but I feel that suspensions works slow when road is not perfect.. Extra ml reduces air chamber and it is possible damage the fork lock. 15W oil doesn't let  the spring work as well because absorbe its function, but is a cheap and fast solution. I did it last september and it isn't what I need. Spring is soft anyway.  

 

I don't think that remove the tube is bad idea -i don't know about other bikes with the tube except XX and X11-, but I am not a suspensions guru. I will ask to my Ohlins dealer next week. If spring+tube measure out 35/40cm (I figure more or less) my idea is replace them for a long 35/40cm spring if hidraulic path alow this length of spring and I will use a stronger spring. 120€ solution. Now I dont feel save riding fast. Not relaxed when ride is a bad sensation. 

[Pipsterx11 4]

Pingu. Did you get this sorted? I am interested in the outcome. Thanks in advance.