rectifier voltage

[blueboy 138]

Hi I was out today and the bike would not start up (battery flat) bump it got home 20miles turn engine off try to start same again.Suspect rectifier as the voltage is showing 13.1 at 4000rpm across battery just wondering if any of you know what it should be showing thanks

[fast_eddy 712]

You need to check the battery voltage with the engine running at 5,000rpm and with the headlight main beam on.

The measured voltage should be 15.5v then.

If it's much less, clean all the terminals, engine earth strap etc...

[blueboy 138]

Have cleaned the terminals and earthing point,will try running at 5k tomorrow and if low will take it to bike shop for test.Seem to remember a quick test something like if your light got brighter will revs rectifier on its way out or something like that?

[Guest Trash]

Sounds more like a poor battery Blue,

The lights should get brighter when you rev but this tells you nothing except that 1) your lights are ON and 2) The voltage increased when you reved.

The best way to check is to measure the design current/ voltage on a load bank (load bank instead of battery as the internal resistance of a battery changes in relation to charge).

The best way to test a battery is to measure its discharge rate

Easiest way is to get someone with a battery tester to test it for you

Edited April 26, 2011 by Trash

[blueboy 138]

Went and got bike and battery tested as advised rec/reg at bike repair shop battery at dealers both OK.Last week same thing went to start when out battery was down ,started with short bump.got home (20 miles )to find battery cooked ,I mean pumped up and close to exploding (lucky).rec/reg totally failed .output from alter. good so awaiting replacement rec/reg from Jaws.Only thing I can think is it may been a intermitted fault before it went .after taking rec/reg off bike could see where one of the didoes had blown in the resin.Seems to be shortage of these parts with some suppliers quoting 4 to 6 months,saiding japan working on current production models and not backorder cat.with the earthquake.so one rec.reg and one battery later should be back on the road happier but poorer.

[Guest Scorch]

I've just tested my charging voltage: 12.xx at idle 1100rpm, Just about makes 14 volts at 5000 rpm. Should I be worried? No short betweeen stator cables and earth, they deliver 10v AC at idle.

I'd know the second my Dyatona was playing up, it would charge at 14.2 volts exactlly at all rpm. Any less than that and I knew my stator/reg was on it's way out.

X11 is obviously different, but do the figures I quote cause concern, or is 14v at 5000rpm acceptable?

[Guest Scorch]

ps:

Further details; I am fairly sure the battery is ok. I flattened it the other day when the old reg went down, but it charged up in record time and has been starting the bike with gusto since then. Also, when I picked up the bike, it was set to idle at  1500rpm +, manual says 1100rpm +/- 100. I'm wondering if the low charge rate at the correct idle puts a strain on the charging system and so it's common practice to set it  a bit higher.  I see a voltage rise of about 1 volts when the idle is set to 1500rpm and I start the bike.

My reg rec upgrade was not without issue... There is an additional black wire from the X11 reg, which according to the wiring diagram should feed the fuel cut/tilt sensor. I left it off on my trip to Santa Pod, as the bike started no problem without connecting it. Yesterday when I tidied up the rush job I'd done on the new reg rec, it wouldnt fire until I shorted out the outside wires on the anti tilt sensor.

Today, I pulled my bypass wire back off, and it started no problem?! 

I think that wire is a positive ignition feed supplied by the regrec to feed the safety cut out stuff, so I guess I could patch it in to the ignition circuit. The only reg recs I've seen with an independent feed like that is on scooters, some of which have a indicator feed directly from the reg. Who knows why...

I think in the case of the X11 it ensures a reliable feed to the safety components even if the rest of the electrical system is damaged in an off.

 

I guess after the 4 years I spent replacing stators on my Triumph, I'm worried the X11 is going to give me similar problems

It's a completely different stator design though, in my mind a better design. The Triumph/kawasaki stators have long armatures off a central pin, which according to a few techies I've spoke to causes heat problems.

Am I worrying unecessarily?!?!?!

[Maintenanceman 206]

That 10v AC at idle sounds little bit low, sadly x-11 or BB manual doesnt give value for that voltage.

Some others, yamaha for example (systems and regs are quite same, yamaha reg is possible to wire to Honda) give something like 40 to 60 volts AC.

That voltage is then flattened out by reg to give more than 12v.

My bike (i have been very suspicious about charging system after my last reg blow) gives more than 12v when idling, ok with lights etc off.

When i put the lights on (xenons) voltage drops and then rises again, using indicator lights makes it hump up and down, when there is more revs then all is ok. I have voltage meter that goes in the cigarette lighter" with me.

[Guest Scorch]

I thought it was a bit low, but on the bright side they all read exactly the same voltage which I take as a good sign.

I sussed the fuel cut out/anti tilt thing...without that feed from the reg, it will only start if you hit the starter before it's finished it's start up cycle. ie; before it's had time to realise you've disconnected it. Top of the jobs list is creating an alternative feed for those components. You just never know when they might be needed.

 

My Triumph stator gave about 15v AC at idle, so I guess they are in the same ballpark. It's the variable regulated voltage that bothers me. When the Triumph registered less than 14.2 volts at any rpm, including idle,  it usually meant at least one of the phases on the stator had given up, and the reg simply wasnt getting enough juice to regulate. Thats usually when the connectors started melting. I guess this is a different design of stator, so perhaps delivers it's voltage in a different way.

 

I'd be interested to know what voltage you get at idle (1100 rpm) with the main beam on. I'm getting about 13 volts, give or take a fraction.  How long have you been dubious about it Maintenanceman?

Edited July 8, 2013 by Scorch

[Maintenanceman 206]

 I cant give you exact value, I have now this http://www.tecmate.com/u_testmate_mini.php#img

 

 with me on my baltic trip (cig lighter plug instead those clamps), it is in the middle when all power consuming things are on, PC3 LCD display, tomtom and gear indicator.

It rises as soon as i give it more revs so i think that it is ok.

Just when the season started i noticed that my reg was blown, untill now i have drove only short trips so i was little bit fingers crossed when i left here, nothing to worry about i think.

One thing was also that my soft saddle bag is blocking little bit that reg airhole on the back o f the bike.

[Maintenanceman 206]

And it drops when fan kicks in. (when idling)

[Guest Scorch]

Well I'll be keeping an eye on your progress!

[Guest Scorch]

Well I've been out today and connected that stray feed to the anti bank sensor.

With the battery sitting overnight, it reads 12.5 volts ignition off. Ignition on, it drops sharply, but quickly recovers to 12.2v. Engine running, main beam on 14.00v +/- 0.3volts. Turning the main beam on/off makes no difference to the voltage, so I'm taking that as a good sign too.

[Maintenanceman 206]

I think so also.